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Post by HMC710 on Jun 15, 2013 9:54:10 GMT -5
Fired off a few rounds of the H110 / Armscor loads in the 1911. The 10gr did not cycle the slide much at all and using small rifle primers took a couple of hammer strikes on some of them. The 11gr load would push the slide back but not eject the case all the time. The 1911 forum said they run 11.0 - 11.4 gr with the 40gr JFN to duplicate the TCM load. These loads were definitely softer than the Lil Gun loads. And yes the fireball was very noticeable if you care about stuff like that I think I'll put about 5gr of Unique in a couple and see what happens with pistol powder. Tried the same loads in the Blow Back upper. Had an issue with the FN bullets as you can see 2nd from right pushed the bullet into the case upon chambering. Three other rounds fired but really blew the necks out. The 2nd from left is even bulged at the body. Also on the three fired cased, very noticeable on the two left cast mouths. Looks like they were almost sheared off. Cases ejected back, hit the case deflector on the upper, and shot them forward and to the right about 10' at the 2:00 position. Next step is to put the super buffer in and do some comparisons with the different twist barrels. Been spending so much time with the pistol and BB the gas gun has been getting lonely......
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 15, 2013 10:23:49 GMT -5
The 5.7X28 brass will push the shoulder forward also -- both the five seven pistol and p90 carbine are blowbacks. I noticed the shoulder being pushed forward a bit in my blowback 7.62 Tok carbine -- maybe about the same as your 22RE cases. It's funny that the second in on the left seems to have had it's shoulder pushed a little more than the other fired cases but this could be one of those strange things that happens with blowback setups.
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 15, 2013 16:28:06 GMT -5
Tim, I made a couple of cases in the 30 Luger size to see how they work in Uzi magazines. The first picture is with a 35gr V-max in the mag. This next picture is with the cartridge and 35gr bullet but also with a second case with a 50gr Hornady bullet. The 50gr is too long -- obviously! I don't have any 40gr or 45gr to try in the cases but I would imagine the 40gr V-max would work but I guess I'll have to order some and see.
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 16, 2013 12:41:26 GMT -5
Cool, What die set did you use to form them 22RE? Shot the two ARs this morning. Gas gun runs a 1:8 twist. Blowback is 1:12. Ran the 40gr JFN and 10gr of H110 out of the 1:8 barrel. Ran 5 rounds through it and got about an 1-1/2" vertical but almost 5" horz at 50 yards. One thing that did happen was some failures to chamber. I chambered the gas gun on formed brass so I'll have to pull it apart and double check head space. Loaded up the 11gr H110 load and didn't even hit the paper, Left and Low. Tried the 35gr VMax and put one on the paper, its the one in the upper right quad. So is it the load, scope (Tasco 3-9 thats worked in the past), barrel, shooter, or what? I think the twist is way too fast for the small bullets. Along with the non chambering issue, had about 50% would not chamber, we need to put some heavies in the this one and try again. Now for the blow back with its 1:12 barrel Fired three rounds of the 10gr H110 load, two rounds of the 11gr 110 load, two rounds of the 35gr vmax 11gr 110 load, and three rounds of the 55gr RNGC load. Very top circled string is the 10gr 110 40JFN, the next group down is the 35VMax. I made a scope adjustment and 3rd down was the 11gr JFN, then I made a scope adjustment and bottom string is the 55gr cast load. The scope I was using on is a Burris Tactical red dot and I held between the two bottom quads. Another note is there were zero failures to chamber. So the 1:12 twist is the clear winner so far. Back to the loading bench......
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 16, 2013 14:31:58 GMT -5
Tim, I have got to say I like that blowback -- a lot! I'm a bit surprised that the DI version is not running as well -- but -- you wanted to build a "barrel change only" type setup for the 9mm blowback guys and I think you might be on to something. I'll be honest with you, I would almost think something went really loose on the scope on the DI version -- it should shoot at least as good as the blowback. On the DI target -- did you use a marker on the bottom of the bullet holes? The holes look different than the ones for the blowback. Most likely just my bad eyes.
The die set is home-made. I haven't gotten the 30 Luger brass yet so I made a die to try and duplicate the 30 Luger size. The length is right but I don't know about the shoulder angle. I did a couple more pieces of brass so I could do a water volume measurement.
edit to add; I did the water volume check and it's only 11.5gr. I made the cases using 7.62Tok cases that were formed into 22RE cases so I didn't have to go through trying to make 22 cal. necks on fresh brass. I didn't realize pushing the shoulder back maybe 4mm would change the volume that much. I think you got like 14gr water volume for the 22RE case.
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 17, 2013 8:05:14 GMT -5
I got 16gr of water with the S&B cases. I am sure the twist rate is the issue with the DI set up. Had the same exact thing running one of my Dad's single shots. 1:9 ran great, 1:12 couldn't hit the paper. Will dig up some heavy bullets and try again. Plus make a DI with a slower twist.
Added: Also ordered a new cast bullet mold from NOE, a great co to do business with by the way. Its a copy of the old Ideal / Lyman 225107 37gr FNGC. Should be here in a couple of days so more incentive to get the pot fired up and cast some of these and the new Lee Black Out cast bullet mold I picked up a couple of months ago......
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 19, 2013 5:42:24 GMT -5
New cast boolit bold arrived Monday and Bro is getting it cleaned up and ready to get to work. Its a 37gr flat nose gas check design and from looking at the mold should be short enough to get the 22 Reed Express into Uzi mags with no problem. Now to get to work on the Uzi adapter.....
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 19, 2013 12:34:05 GMT -5
I was messing around with the reformed 30 Luger and found that I could only load like 10gr of Lil' Gun or 11gr of H110. I guess they would shoot ok but not any real high velocity. I should get the real 30 Luger brass late tomorrow and maybe I'll see if there is any difference between the reformed Tok brass and the Luger brass.
Too bad they don't make a round nose 37gr mold for casting 22 cal. bullets. Do think there will be a problem with the flat nose?
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 19, 2013 16:23:45 GMT -5
I'm sure that with a little set up time that flat nose could become pointy ;D Let's see what happens when we get them set up. Put the fired cases in the media cleaner and will run them through the sizing die when I get a chance. Want to see how the BB cases respond. Picked up another BB BCG so don't have to share with the Tok anymore.
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 19, 2013 17:04:14 GMT -5
I loved shooting the BB Tok carbine with lead bullets. I was going to try the copper plated ones but the plain lead one's were so cheap I never got around to it.
Love to see how the lead 37gr bullets shoot in the 22RE version you're making.
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 20, 2013 7:02:36 GMT -5
Not to mention all those big heavies were lead! Working on a couple of ideas that might help the BB out. Still have to tear the DI down and review its chamber. I know the BB has a generous bevel into it. Perhaps if we closed that down and got a bit tighter it would help retard the blow back a bit.
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 20, 2013 8:47:43 GMT -5
Tim, Do you know if anybody actually sells cast 22 caliber bullets in the 35gr to 40gr range. would be nice to find a cast bullet with a roundish nose. Edit to say; Darn -- I ask about the 22 bullets and then I go and google it and find this below. I found them at this site -- www.bullets-brass.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SS_51222the company that makes them may also do gas checks -- I hope -- because if they don't then the muzzle velocity may be limited.
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 20, 2013 9:10:53 GMT -5
Seek and ye shall find
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 21, 2013 6:42:17 GMT -5
Measured and sized up some fired cases last night. The DI cases sized like butter. By the way the wax I use is Imperial from Sharp Shoot R www.midwayusa.com/product/623016/sharp-shoot-r-royal-case-sizing-wax-4-oz-jarBro was using some stuff one day and I knew I had to try it. This stuff is amazing. I will (hiopefully) never go back to the pads and goop method. This stuff works and lasts forever. I've had this for two years and I used the residue in the lid for the first year. The DI cases sized right up. I thought I might have some tight necks as some of the fired cases would not take a bullet. All the necks measured about .225" - .226" id and .250" od. They all went to .245 - 246" when sized. I think its just neck mouth imperfections from sizing down to .22 cal. When sizing cases that's a pretty big step and I do it in one shot with the Imperial wax. I sized them first in the Tok dies to get the necks round, chamfered in and out, then ran them through the .22 RE dies. If the necks were not good to start with, they would be junk after the RE dies. The BB cases with the shoulders blown out also sized up pretty good. They grew about .005" on some of them and the brass is getting worked over pretty good but they came back to size. Sized up my cases so now to get Bro off his arse and get my 37gr boolits done and load up some heavies for the fast twist DI barrel and we'll go from there.
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 21, 2013 9:59:51 GMT -5
Tim, What is the neck diameter in your 22RE chamber?
edit to add; Tim, I was just thinking that the DI version you're working on might be a good switch barrel setup for all those Tok Carbines. There were a lot of people that had the DI Tok carbines to shoot the milsurp ammo but it has dried up pretty much. By the way, the 22TCM does feed nice in a DI type upper using PPS magazines and since there actually is ammo being manufactured I was thinking it might make a good replacement for the milsurp Tok ammo although more expensive but that's where reloading comes in. I honestly don't know what length gas system would work well with the commercial 22TCM -- might be the same short system like you used on the Tok's. Brass for the 22TCM is available in either the head stamped 22TCM or the 22 Micro Mag version which is the same thing. In carbines using the PPS-43 magazines the extra room allows for longer bullets.
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