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Post by HMC710 on Jan 12, 2014 20:38:43 GMT -5
Finally got out to the range today. Nice sunny and 60 out for a change. The plan was to chrono the 7.4 gr loads but the sun angle didn't cooperate and no readings. Until I tried turning the unit on its side facing the sun 40 gr JFN rounds hit 2150 in the blow back and the 75 gr hit 1871 in the gas gun. JFN didn't feed at all in the blow back out of the tok mag and didn't have a uzi set up to try. Will try again with some spire points in 35 - 45 gr. Used both the 9.7 and 17 oz buffers. Sure wish I hadn't left the Uzi set up back home..... The 75 gr too long for Tok mags and the M1 mag followers still suck... Sure do miss being at the shop....
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Post by HMC710 on Jan 29, 2014 22:57:59 GMT -5
Still committed to making this a safe and viable blow back round. There is just so much hardware out there for an alternative that uses Uzi materials. I'm looking at this two ways so we'll see which direction we end up (yea, Both, I know...) but its been a learning experience and there is more to recoil operation than meets the eiye. Got some more blanks coming in 1;12 twist for the light bullets so hopefully we can get a couple knocked out at the shop in two weeks.
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Post by HMC710 on Feb 11, 2014 18:59:05 GMT -5
Well, I had some blanks coming. Apparently someone decided to go to Key West for 10 days and not take care of the mail.... Just chambered my last 1:12 I had here at the shop for a customer and GM said they are "re-sending" my order. Too bad I won't be here..
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Post by blurrededge on Apr 7, 2014 0:39:52 GMT -5
Thinking ahead with my limited ammount of surplus ammo (eventually I will burn through the couple thousand rounds I have, and the brass is most likely not worth trying to reload being berdan primed, and the likelyhood of split necks). The 22TCM, atleast for now, is available as a factory load, and preformed brass is also obtainable. Being able to stock up in large numbers due to this put's this round slightly ahead in my opinion. The 22RE may have an edge in case capacity, but is it enough to chose one over the other with a noticeable difference? The way I am thinking, the 22 TCM will already fit the components for the DI Tok upper, including the mags, which means it can be reloaded with longer bullets, just needs a new barrel, right? (...or is the gas tube length different?)
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Post by 22boomer on Apr 7, 2014 9:21:18 GMT -5
Thinking ahead with my limited ammount of surplus ammo (eventually I will burn through the couple thousand rounds I have, and the brass is most likely not worth trying to reload being berdan primed, and the likelyhood of split necks). The 22TCM, atleast for now, is available as a factory load, and preformed brass is also obtainable. Being able to stock up in large numbers due to this put's this round slightly ahead in my opinion. The 22RE may have an edge in case capacity, but is it enough to chose one over the other with a noticeable difference? The way I am thinking, the 22 TCM will already fit the components for the DI Tok upper, including the mags, which means it can be reloaded with longer bullets, just needs a new barrel, right? (...or is the gas tube length different?) I have a 22 Reed Express DI operated AR rifle and it shoots super. I get 3200fps using the 30 grain Varmint Grenade bullets and it's accurate. As you were saying the short side of the 22RE is there is no brass -- you have to make it and no loaded ammo. I've tried the 22 TCM in the PPS-43 mag and it feeds for me where the 22 RE seemed to not like that magazine so I had to go to the CZ-24 subgun magazine. I think Tim has decided he likes the 22RE and until he gets what he wants the other stuff will have to wait. Tim wants an alternative for those people that own 9mm blowback carbines so the rim size needs to be the same as the 9mm. If he gets it working good maybe he can talk Ron Reed into making ammo again. Of course tim makes a good DI setup for the 7.62X25 and there is no reason a 22 TCM DI version wouldn't also work just as well.
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Post by HMC710 on Apr 8, 2014 21:30:05 GMT -5
Loaded up a bunch this weekend with the 40 gr TCM bullets and changed to a lighter spring in the 1911 conversion. Have to look up my notes on the load but around 11 gr of H110 and the hard rifle primers take a couple of strikes to fire sometimes. The action wanted to work but still not 100% but I haven't played with it in a while. Brought the DI along but forgot the BCG...... seems like I always leave something behind The 22 TCM should be a no brainer and brass may be easier to get, haven't tried. I know Tok brass is no where to be found. 22B is right tho about my quest. There needs to be a BB version.,,,
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Post by HMC710 on May 11, 2014 6:48:57 GMT -5
The 1:12 twist barrels that got sent back were here at the shop so hopefully I can run another barrel or two while I'm here. Still no brass to be found.....
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Post by 22boomer on May 14, 2014 15:32:56 GMT -5
I had a little eye opener today with the 22TCM. In the past I had tried the 22tcm brass with shorter bullets like the Berger 30gr Varmint Grenade and the Hornady 35gr v-max and the dummy cartridges fed fine out of the PPS-43 magazines. I got a pile of Hornady 40gr V-max bullets in today and decided to try some in the 22TCM brass. I found the dummy 22TCM cartridge with the 40gr V-max was too long to fit in the PPS magazine. I have no idea at this time if there is a good magazine that will work with the 22TCM fitted with the 40gr V-max unless it's the M1 carbine magazine. I'm not really sure how the M1 carbine magazine would work since it's a bit narrower but the front to back length would be more than enough. I guess I need to check this further.
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Post by HMC710 on May 15, 2014 20:31:44 GMT -5
Been there with the 22 RE and the short body does not play well with the M1 follower. You get a dramatic tilt right off the bat. You might want to try a different bullet with a flat base that you can seat a little deeper, those V Max's are pretty long.
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Post by 22boomer on May 16, 2014 17:14:32 GMT -5
I decided to dig into some of the bullets that are my favorites for the 22 Reed Express and came up with the Barnes 30gr Varmint Grenade. I don't have any of the 36gr Varmint Grenades but they can't be that much longer. With the 30gr bullet seated in a 22 TCM case with some of the bullet shank showing I could easily get 1.37" COL. The picture below is the 22 TCM with the 30gr Barnes bullet next to a commercial Sellier&Bellott 7.62X25 Tok round. The Tok round actually measured 1.368" COL. Only problem I found is the Barnes Varmint Grenade seems to be popular and can be hard to find at times. The 22 TCM cartridge stacks and feeds really nice out of the PPS-43 magazine when using that Barnes bullet. I like the 22 Reed Express but the 22 TCM actually has formed brass available and loaded ammo is also available if you don't feel like reloading all the time.
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Post by HMC710 on May 20, 2014 19:55:55 GMT -5
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Post by 22boomer on May 21, 2014 9:52:16 GMT -5
In the old days people used to reform .223 brass into 7.62X25 cases -- a little narrow at the base area but I think they worked. I never tried reforming the 22 TCM into 22 Reed Express. The cases would have to be trimmed but I don't know if the necks would need to be turned also. For you it might work out better in the end if you just got the 22 TCM reamer. I bought brass when they were selling the cases made from odds and ends brass -- mostly Fiocchi brass but I noticed Ammo Supply Warehouse isn't selling those cases anymore.
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 1, 2014 20:47:48 GMT -5
Ammo Supply Warehouse lists brass, bullets and dies in stock. Put the blow back on the bench today and did some measuring with fired and sized cases. Sized cases seemed a bit long in the chamber so checked into that. The CH4D dies decapper is too long and in order to get the bushing past the neck, the decapper hits the bottom of the case and the case does not get sized all the way. It looks like they used a std 22 cal rifle decapping stem. This causes the shoulder to be a bit forward and the case doesn't seat all the way into the chamber. I measured everywhere from 1.130" - 1.150". Theoretically it should be 1.125 +0, -.005. I do check the bolt face depth to see where that is so I don't chamber too deep. So in order to get that last .010" or so, I removed the decapping stem and made sure the die was screwed down into the shell holder, and re-sized 20 cases. I loaded up 20 cases with various bullets of 50 - 55gr with 5 gr of LilGun which should give me about 1200 fps at 10,000 pcs pressure. A nice safe place to start from and go from there. The plan is to use stock bolt, buffer, and spring, and see what reliably works. I used a stock uzi mag and our adapter to load two rounds in. And at the range, not knowing what to expect......... Click........ What? Ejected the case and just a dent in the primer. So it looks like that extra "sizing" moved the shoulder fwd enough in my chamber to cause head space issues. Now, I was using my Blackout lower with a 3 lb trigger so that might have some impact on it but the BO shoots ok.... I did get a few rounds to fire off and for a 10,000 psi squib load, and as usual, it seemed a bit more than I had hoped. Going to explore this neck location / headspace issue and see where we go from here on the blow back.
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 2, 2014 21:22:57 GMT -5
I pulled the bolt out and measured the depth of the bolt face and guess what... .135" So I just thought myself out of head space here. The extra .005", the spring loaded firing pin, and the 3lb hammer springs, all add up to "click" I backed off the sizing die and ran 5 cases through and will load them up with the same 5 gr load for testing. Moving forward with the Blow Back / Uzi format, I sized a 9x23 case. It got barely into the neck of the die and the body is definitely wider than a std tok case. More work to do here...... And to make sure 22B doesn't get bored, we also went the other way and sized a 9mm Mag case. Remember we did this with the Tokarev and had the 30 TMag. It would hit 2200 fps easy. Not being able to find any 9x23 brass, I ordered a box on 9mm Win Mag and was going to cut some down if I had two. Well of course I had to neck one down to 22 cal L- R: 22 Super Reed w55gr hp, 22 RE 75 gr, 22 RE 62gr, 9x23 formed (almost) case
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 10, 2014 21:20:34 GMT -5
The Love / Hate (or definition of insanity) relationship continues......... Sized cases tight and had excess headspace Bumped shoulder forward a bit and 1st shot beautiful (for a squib load, 5gr of Lil Gun) 2nd shot hard (same load) 3rd shot too hard for comfort. Took it down for cleaning and now I have a bulge (or two) in the barrel. Will cut the barrel apart when I get a chance...........
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