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Post by 22boomer on Nov 15, 2012 12:23:14 GMT -5
Not sure there is a place for this round but it seems to be making headway in the 1911 pistol world. The commercial round actually fits in a 9mm magazine although I don't have a clue if it would function in a double stack/double feed mag like a metal form. the Rock Island 1911 pistol can shoot both the 22 TCM and 9mm with just a barrel change and the magazine is a double stack/single feed. There is factory ammo available and the little round is said to do 2000fps out of the pistol. I've got an AR carbine in the 22 Reed Express but I don't load the mags up much since I have to make the brass -- not a lot of trouble except it's small and I hate when I can't find the spent cases in the grass. Factory ammo could make a difference. Just another thought.
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Post by 22boomer on Nov 16, 2012 5:55:26 GMT -5
Sorry, I think this was a bad idea. Just read some stuff that said that the 22 TCM is kind of a proprietary design. That might be the reason I can't find any reamer specs or info on the short bullet that the company uses in their cartridge.
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 18, 2012 14:11:22 GMT -5
I think it would make a great round, a short .22 Reeds Express. I thought I read where Armscor built a new ammo plant in Montana. Of course, time and the market will tell. And will they take the Whisper path or the Blackout path? That will also play a role. I'm keeping my eye open for one of the RIA 1911's but without the reamer and dies........
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Post by 22boomer on Nov 19, 2012 6:09:13 GMT -5
I think it would make a great round, a short .22 Reeds Express. I thought I read where Armscor built a new ammo plant in Montana. Of course, time and the market will tell. And will they take the Whisper path or the Blackout path? That will also play a role. I'm keeping my eye open for one of the RIA 1911's but without the reamer and dies........ I found a little more info -- I couldn't figure out how they could have a cartridge case that was 1.0" long with a bullet set in there with any size to it at all and still fit in a 9mm magazine. Well the RI pistol uses a 38 Super magazine so that allows for some more over-all length. By the way the case on the 22 Reed Express is actually shorter than the 22 TCM case. I have the 22 Reed Express and the cases I have are 0.99" long -- corrected normal length is 0.98". The 22 RE case has more volume since it's based on the 7.62X25 cartridge case. The 22 TCM magazine is a double stack/single feed -- don't know how that would work in a DI setup but then maybe the 22 TCM might just work nice in a PPS mag.
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 23, 2012 13:29:58 GMT -5
The issue with the 22 RE is the same as the Tok: 1.35" oal of factory rounds. They can function in the 1911, but not the greatest. Reloading would take care of that, but the TCM is trying to do it right from the start. But, if the 22RE was loaded with the TCM 40gr Hornet bullet could you get it to 1.28"? This is an important point: According to Quick Load, who lists the TCM by the way (no drawing tho) and the 40 gr Hornady with an OAL of 1.23". The 40gr bullet is listed as .420" long. The Hornady 50 gr Vmax is .800" long. I would bet that you put the two cases side by side you wouldn't see much difference other than the width of the body, Tok/9mm vs 223. Reading through the design of the TCM, the .223 case was picked to get the pressures up. I still think its a great idea. On a side note, we've been working with a customer on another wildcat. Great idea, but, my argument is that if it fits a 1911 the chance of success is much greater. Like the 5.7x28. At 1.59" oal, it won't work in the 1911. Just called CH-4D to order some .22 Reeds Express dies.....
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 23, 2012 20:41:52 GMT -5
Got an email back from Ron Reed. Said he can make me a reamer...... Here we go again
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 24, 2012 14:25:55 GMT -5
CH-4D wasn't home when I called yesterday so I asked Ron Reed if he had dies also. Dies and reamer on the way. Bit of a lead time but that's ok. Talked about twist rates and barrels so this is going to be a fun project. Plus we know they will feed from a Tok mag in the AR. The TCM would have to find a double stack mag for the AR to keep bolt / mag mods to a minimum required for single stack mags.
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Post by 22boomer on Nov 25, 2012 8:42:20 GMT -5
You're right about the Armscor ammo plant in Montana but I don't know if they would sell the formed brass. You would think the plant would since a lot of pistol shooters are also reloaders. I love the 22 Reed Express -- It goes fast out of a 16" carbine. My only problem with running it in an AR was the round did not like to feed out of a PPS magazine -- I had to go with CZ-24 subgun magazine, trim the top of the magazine and use a different magblock. The CZ-24 mags are shaped like Sten mags only wider at the rear and longer front to back. There is always the PPSH-41 magazine that's double stack/single feed but I never got around to trying those and I have no idea how to get a single feed mag to work well in a DI type AR. Below is a picture of a PPSH-41 magazine with the shell peeled off and a 22 RE round. The 22 RE has a 30gr Barnes bullet and does 3200fps out of my carbine. Notice it looks just like a PPS-43 but it single feed and has a darn outer cover that I took off . Maybe you can get them to work. Almost forgot -- The commercial Sellier&Bellott 7.62 brass reforms super nice but I had a heck of a time with the Starline 7.62 brass. I did find that the Starline 7.62 brass is actually a little short so I went to the Starline 30 Mauser brass and found it's the same length as the Sellier&Bellott 7.62 stuff. I also did 22 Reed Express brass using .223 brass -- only problem is it needed neck turning. Ron Reed will tell you that there is nothing better than Sellier&Bellott brass -- I think it's made by Privi -- and nobody imports the 7.62X25 brass. Ron used to make the 22RE ammo and brass (even annealed) but most of the people shooting the stuff started making their own ammo so Ron kinda quit -- wish he still did the brass. If you get into the 22RE maybe Ron can tell you how he did the brass so well -- I think he used Starline. Just in case you want to compare the 22 RE to the 22 TCM below is the specs on the 22 TCM cartridge case.
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 25, 2012 10:20:43 GMT -5
I have some Pps41 mags I got by mistake one time. They don't work at all. If you open up the feed lips for the BCG it won't hold a shell, That means modifying the BCG. I've done two and its a pain. I don't know that I've ever seen a CZ-24 mag. I do remember seeing a tok mag that was more wedge shaped and thought it might be too wide at the back to fit the AR magwell. Looked on gunbroker, yep, seen them before.
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Post by 22boomer on Nov 25, 2012 12:54:54 GMT -5
I have some Pps41 mags I got by mistake one time. They don't work at all. If you open up the feed lips for the BCG it won't hold a shell, That means modifying the BCG. I've done two and its a pain. I don't know that I've ever seen a CZ-24 mag. I do remember seeing a tok mag that was more wedge shaped and thought it might be too wide at the back to fit the AR magwell. Looked on gunbroker, yep, seen them before. Yes, the CZ-24 is too wide for the AR magwell but the rear part can be narrowed to 0.94" and they will fit in the area of the AR magwell that is wider -- like the area where the magcatch on the standard AR mag goes is a hair wider so they fit. Too bad there is no way to get the PPSH-41 mags to work -- oh well. The PPS-43 mags really do hold the 22 Reed Express very well but there is something about them that causes the rounds to nose up and get jammed in the barrel extension. It might just have been the combination of my feed ramp and the shape of the barrel extension feed ramps that caused the problem but I did not have the resources to work the problem out -- so I went the CZ-24 mag route. Bad part about the CZ-24 mags is they require a two-piece magblock. Sure would be great if you could figure out the 22 RE/PPS-43 combination.
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 25, 2012 14:42:16 GMT -5
Well, I guess we're fixin to find out.....
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Post by 22boomer on Nov 25, 2012 19:14:09 GMT -5
God knows I've got my fingers crossed!
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 26, 2012 9:53:51 GMT -5
what twist barrel do you have on the carbine?
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Post by 22boomer on Nov 26, 2012 11:08:43 GMT -5
what twist barrel do you have on the carbine? It's a 1:10 twist with the pistol length gas system. I believe the gas port is a tad larger than you would normally expect but the action works with all standard AR parts with standard carbine buffer and spring. Please don't ask me to pull the gas block to measure the port. The carbine will put 10 shots into one ragged hole and I don't want to screw with anything -- that's the 22RE with the 30gr barnes bullets and Lil' Gun powder -- the 3200fps one.
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 26, 2012 11:19:44 GMT -5
No worries, I'll take it from there 1:10 seems a bit slow for the 30gr bullets, but you can't argue with success can you
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