|
Post by HMC710 on Dec 9, 2013 22:13:54 GMT -5
I believe I read where 30 Mauser brass was not as strong as the Tokarev so it would be interesting to see a cross section of the different brass. Got a table set up so now to get things mounted up and do some reloading. Got some more blanks on order but will be a bit before machine set up.
|
|
|
Post by 22boomer on Dec 10, 2013 19:23:36 GMT -5
I've had no problems with using the Starline 30 Mauser brass and it actually seems easier to form. I would have to kinda doubt that Starline would make up a whole different way of making the 30 Mauser web area as apposed to the 7.62 Tok web area in their brass cases. They just make the case a little longer and call it 30 Mauser. I might try cutting a Starline 7.62 tok case, a Starline 30 Mauser case and a Starline 9mm Winchester magnum case in half length-wise to compare the web areas of each.
|
|
|
Post by HMC710 on Dec 14, 2013 13:50:25 GMT -5
Good point, only one way to find out. I wonder if the same thing could be done in reverse to make a short 223 case?
|
|
|
Post by HMC710 on Dec 25, 2013 13:39:38 GMT -5
Got loading bench up and 22 RE dies in place. Picked up some Hornady 75 gr BTHP and VMax bullets for the DI gun and going to load up a rack of 40gr JFP for the BB cun. Don't have things moved down south yet so can't set up for barrels but def want to knock out some pistols with our new piston set up. But, you know what they say, Everything works on paper.... Got a big box of brass coming so we'll see how Starline reforms into RE brass. Still contemplating getting another set of RE dies and chopping them down to 30 Luger size. We can use uzi mags with the right bullets right now and we have cut down .223 brass in diff calibers to see just how much heat we can fit in an Uzi...... but soon turns into an exercise in futility....... Looking through all my notes on the 22 Reed Express: I've got about 3x as much effort into this round as anything I have done, probably with exception of the Tokarev, maybe. The Tok was easy....., make it shoot surplus ammo and go. Throw in some sub sonic stuff and presto, done. This dang Reed Express tho..... I am consumed on making it a BB round. The infrastructure is already there. The issue is safety: load this thing wrong and you will get hurt. The other issue is OAL. Marty told me a long time ago, "anyone can make a chamber work, making the mags work is the issue." This thing is begging to be in an Uzi, and we can do it in spades. Just don't over load it, which people will want to do. Then there is the high power side: Tok mags, M1 carbine mags, stock mags..... all of them will work with the right follower and bullet but none of them will work with all of the combinations. SO: Is it "build it and they will come?" or a solution that doesn't have a problem? Then again, this is the AR..... so I guess we'll Do Both!
|
|
|
Post by 22boomer on Dec 25, 2013 19:44:52 GMT -5
I would love to see something in the 30 Luger necked down to 22. You might need to make an intermediate neck sizer to something like 25 caliber but I did some for laughs sometime back and the fit the Uzi and 9mm magazines just fine. I did a crummy job or forming and I used a short 35gr bullet but with the right powder it would be cool. It would be something for all those people who already have a 9mm setup -- just swap the upper and shoot a hot 22.
|
|
|
Post by HMC710 on Dec 26, 2013 21:41:05 GMT -5
Yea, that's the whole point I guess, there are all those blow back 9's and this would add to the mix. No bolt work, no special mag adapters, nothing. I'll run some numbers on the 22 Luger and see where it ends up with a 35kswi pressure limit. Loaded up a bunch last night with inverted ss109's at 1000 fps using 2400 this time. Also loaded up some of the TCM 40gr JFP at 2000 fps and some Hornady JHP 75gr at 2000 fps for the gas gun. The 75gr loads were set at 1.590" oal and the bullet was actually into the rifling about .020". That got me to thinking about throating the BB gun to see if we can Weatherby it and add some free bore to reduce the pressures. Maybe we can call it the 22 RESpecTwo Played around with the M1 carbine mags a bit and the followers still suck. Need to make some new ones for reliable Reed Express work, something else to add to the work pile....Hoping things go well these next few days and the ground dries up a bit we can get back out to the range and pop some of these guys off!
|
|
|
Post by 22boomer on Dec 27, 2013 8:17:27 GMT -5
I would really like to see what the 40gr bullets do out of that case. Doesn't take much pistol powder to make something that size fly. Did you try some dummy rounds in a 9mm mag and see how smoothly they feed?
|
|
|
Post by HMC710 on Dec 27, 2013 21:45:55 GMT -5
Can easily hit 2600 fps with them. Ran the 22 Luger through Quick Design and looks like a factory load would be a 35gr bullet at 2000 fps
|
|
|
Post by 22boomer on Dec 29, 2013 10:21:09 GMT -5
Please forgive my stupid question -- is that from a pistol barrel or carbine barrel? By the way, I like the name 22 Luger.
|
|
|
Post by HMC710 on Dec 29, 2013 20:55:52 GMT -5
I ran the model on an 8" barrel. It jumps up to 2500 fps with a 16" barrel. But remember, its only a model. Reality has a way of changing things....... So its close to the TCM and 22 RE.
Brass is on back order.... go figure. Hopefully two weeks....
|
|
|
Post by HMC710 on Jan 1, 2014 21:28:56 GMT -5
Had a chance to make it to the range today to try out the subsonic and 75gr amax loads today. The sub loads were 3.4gr of 2400 with pulled SS109 62 gr bullets seated backwards. OAL was 1.28 and 1.19" The gas gun did not cycle with this load and they chrono'd out at 990 fps and were fed from a Tok mag with about 50% success because of the flat nose of the bullet. The same load with the Blow Back gun was a bit different. First round was 585 fps, 2nd was 690, 692, and 838 fps. Recoil was a lot harder that I had expected with the 9.7oz buffer. The 75 gr amax load was 7.4gr of 2400 at 1.59" but they were into the rifling about .020". This caused some chambering issues but we fired enough to get some chrono readings of 1900 fps. Bullets were too long for Tok mags so we single fed them. Had a new scope on so we got up close to sight in and things were encouraging, but the long bullets werent cooperating so we cut the session short. We didn't try any of these loads in the blow back figuring it would cause pressures to go up.
|
|
|
Post by HMC710 on Jan 5, 2014 16:51:19 GMT -5
The 75 gr Hornady bullets were the HPBT which are a bit shorter than the Amax I had posted earlier as Amax. I re-seated them down to 1.560" and they are not into the rifling and feed manually just fine. They are seated below the neck of the case, but, it is what it is. The AMax bullets are longer 1.070" vs .980" for the HPBT This allows for about .3 gr more powder, but still under 2000 fps. Will check for accuracy next session out at the range. Will load up some of the 40 gr JFN in various ranges to test the blow back some more.
|
|
|
Post by 22boomer on Jan 6, 2014 8:09:12 GMT -5
Those rounds look really impressive. Are you planning on going any further with the 22 Luger? I noticed over on a site that had the 30 Luger Fiocchi brass in 100 and 1000 count lots for a kinda fair price at www.lohmanarms.com/product_p/fcupb30lug1000.htm and Fiocchi is pretty good brass. I would love to see what the 22 Luger would do in a blowback.
|
|
|
Post by 22boomer on Jan 8, 2014 11:46:56 GMT -5
I didn't realize just how hard it is to get some of these small cartridge cases. Graff's normally had both Starline and Fiocchi 30 Luger brass and now they don't carry the Fiocchi and the Starline is out of stock. I could make 30 luger from 9X21 Starline brass but I can't even find any of that now -- unless I'm willing to pay an arm and a leg for it.
I hope you have better luck than I had looking for the brass.
|
|
|
Post by HMC710 on Jan 9, 2014 21:12:28 GMT -5
my issue with 30 Luger brass is finding out if it has the same pressure rating as Tok brass. Most sources say no. Like we typed a few reply's earlier, if we had a cross section we would know. So then we go back to why not just cut down scrap 223 brass. We agreed it would make sense to us to just alter the blank length and make luger, tok, 9mm ect with all the same web, but business being what it is these days, less material = more money so who knows...... Plus the fact I need to ruin a $100 set of dies to help a brother out I would love to do it, when I've got the shop moved and things set up and I'm not sleeping on an air mattress. ( where is the emoticon with the Waaaaaaaaaaa?) Do you think Fred Craig had these conversations 10 yrs ago? How a bout the other end of the spectrum? Why don't we stretch all these cases out to M1 carbine length? Then we could bring back the Automag ;D
|
|