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Post by HMC710 on Nov 16, 2015 9:08:21 GMT -5
Been seeing a resurgence in Tok uppers lately and have two shipping out this morning. I also had one come back. The bottom line was I got bolts mixed up in shipment and longer cases would not fully chamber. Just to give some background, here are some measurements related to Tokarev ammo. Measurements are with a depth mike from the back of the barrel extension with the bullet seated on its shoulder in the chamber. So the higher, or bigger the measurement, the shorter the case is from the shoulder to the base. Sized Starline Brass, Lee Dies: .385" (I didn't have a new sized case to verify this "used" one) Polish Surplus: .379" Bulgarian Surplus: .371" Privi PPU new mfg: .372" - .377" and here is the interesting one....... Clymer GO Gauge: .364"
When I first got the Go Gauge, I chambered 5 barrels, and none of them would fire.... On the bolt side, lug lengths also vary from .276" to .278". I'll have to see where my box of new brass is and check them out vs the two pcs I've got at the lathe to see how far their shoulders have been pushed back. Chambering the Tokarev is a compromise.
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Post by HMC710 on Nov 18, 2015 8:22:58 GMT -5
Finished a complete 16" and wish I had the chrono up here to verify the new Privi ammo velocity to what we are getting from the 30 Slugger ( Super Luger )
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Post by scheirere on Jan 6, 2016 12:09:02 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I was able to chrono the 85gr. FMJ Prvi brass ammo from my 10" DI AR setup, with a silencer. Roughly 1650 fps, but I was getting some pretty big swings in velocity. Low of 1571 and a high of 1697fps. Accuracy was marginal but that could also be the AR build. This is the first ammo thru it! E
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Post by HMC710 on Jan 10, 2016 9:53:19 GMT -5
Hey E, Thanks for the post, got any pics? I have not used the Privi stuff much at all, but I did measure some cases and there were almost .010" variation is the shoulder height!
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Post by scheirere on Jan 11, 2016 14:31:40 GMT -5
Hi Tim, Unfortunately, not at the moment, but I can snap a few of the setup and post them. Interesting find on the shoulder height. I'll have to throw a caliper on some to see if this batch follows suit. I'm not to concerned with them at the moment. I'm shooting them to basically fire-form the case to my chamber with the intention of using 145-180 gr. bullets, subsonic. I'm sure the long throat isn't helping in terms of accuracy.
Speaking of subsonic bullets, can you recomend a few starting loads for 168gr. bullets?
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Post by HMC710 on Jan 13, 2016 18:40:40 GMT -5
6 gr of H110 with an OAL of 1.6" should start you off. If your "economical" like me, try 3 gr of Unique or Universal.... :} Don't go shorter on OAL tho......
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Post by scheirere on Jan 14, 2016 13:42:59 GMT -5
Thanks Tim. Much appreciated. Are you running a standart AR15 magazine or are you doing something different. Like putting in a spacer block in the magazine. I'm a little less than confident those little buggers are going to feed for me. E
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Post by 22boomer on Jan 14, 2016 16:49:38 GMT -5
6 gr of H110 with an OAL of 1.6" should start you off. If your "economical" like me, try 3 gr of Unique or Universal.... :} Don't go shorter on OAL tho...... Tim, Your economy load of 3.0gr of Unique -- what bullet weight are you putting over that powder charge and will it operate your short gas system? Do you know what the velocity is with that charge of Unique and what ever bullet weight you used? I've run your short system with factory 7.62 Tok ammo and hand loads but I haven't tried any Unique powder in it yet -- probably the only round I haven't tried Unique in.
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Post by HMC710 on Jan 15, 2016 7:37:03 GMT -5
I didn't mess with boolits less than 180gr much so I just use std AR mags. Only after we did the M1 Carbine adapter did I use it for the Moscow Match type loads. Both the loads listed above are true Sub loads: ~1000 fps. When using the longer cast or 200+gr jacketed bullets you can get to 2.25" oal and up to 4gr of Unique. This still keeps you in the sub sonic area, generates full pressure, and yes, operates the short gas system. As a comparison, about 6.5gr of Unique is max load with the 85gr FMJ bullets at std Tok lengths. I have found I actually tune down the gas system to run the subs, that's why I go with the BTE adj gas blocks. If you don't have an adj gas block, just start using slower powders until you find one that works with your tune.
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Post by 22boomer on Jan 15, 2016 8:08:00 GMT -5
Thanks Tim! I'll run some test loads and see how they work and I'm glad to know they will work the short system. I can't adjust my gas block -- it's one of the early ones that uses the curved gas tube up out of the gas block that looks like a collar. The M1 carbine mag is what I use for cartridges using something like the 110gr V-max bullets -- works like a champ.
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Post by HMC710 on Jan 16, 2016 8:44:43 GMT -5
I agree, those 110gr VMax are awesome! Put some in the Tok Magnum running M1 Mags and it really wakes things up. Its easy to generate some high pressures with heavy bullets and fast powders so be careful.
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Post by 22boomer on Jan 16, 2016 15:32:34 GMT -5
I agree, those 110gr VMax are awesome! Put some in the Tok Magnum running M1 Mags and it really wakes things up. Its easy to generate some high pressures with heavy bullets and fast powders so be careful. My first tests didn't go real well -- rounds fired and threw the spent shell pretty far but did not pick up the next round. The load was 3.2gr of Unique and I'm using a rifle lower with a light weight buffer but standard spring. I went to 4.ogr of unique and changed the spring to a lighter one but it would not lock to bolt back on the empty Pmag. I have a carbine lower but right now it's set up for 9mm and I don't want to change it. In the past I tried 6.5gr of Tite Group under an 85gr Sierra bullet and it worked fine but that was with the carbine lower with standard carbine buffer and spring. I ran out of time so will have to try later. I didn't like the light spring since it had a tendency to not push the carrier fully forward and it caused light firing pin strikes. I put the original rifle spring back in and will test further with it. It might be that I'm trying to do something that you can do with 180gr bullets while I'm using 110gr bullets.
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Post by HMC710 on Jan 17, 2016 11:21:30 GMT -5
Right, with the lighter bullets you should be up around 5.5 - 6.5 gr on Unique at 1.6 OAL My Tok pistol has a no weight buffer and a cut wolf low power spring.
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Post by HMC710 on Jan 17, 2016 11:44:28 GMT -5
22, do you know your gas port size? What's your barrel number, I can look it up and tune to whatever your favorite load is.
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Post by 22boomer on Jan 17, 2016 16:56:21 GMT -5
22, do you know your gas port size? What's your barrel number, I can look it up and tune to whatever your favorite load is. Tim, I have no idea what the number is -- did you you stamp them back when you had the collar type gas block and the curved (90 degree) gas tube? I think your previous post hit it -- I need more powder for the lighter 110gr bullets. I did some loads with AA #9 for the 110's and some Lapua 100gr bullets that work nice.
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