Post by HMC710 on Aug 16, 2010 7:09:39 GMT -5
Been thinking on this for a while and finally pulled the trigger. Talking with a customer about the ability to run sub-sonic and hi-vel loads in the same upper with the Tokarev. I've done reloads with the Tok and played with some sub sonic stuff, but never really went too far. Here is a nice job on some Tok chrono data: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=507320
And here is the TMagnum
This is from an 11" pistol. This project just started about a week ago so there is still a lot of testing and proving to do. For the sub side, I started with 147gr bulk bullets and a pistol length gas system. Using Quick Load to try and preview results, I then would load up 125, 147, and 180's. You could definitely hear when you dropped below the super sonic level. The barrel is 1:10 twist and I have very little experience with sub loads, if you don't count 38's and 45's, so I really did not know what to expect. The powder is Lil' Gun. The pistol gas system would cycle everything until we dropped below the sub level with the 125's and the 147 were about 50%. Then we concentrated on the 180's and 200's. Got both of them running at 1000 fps and feeding from a Colt mag with the black follower. One thing that is really clear is that reloading the sub round is much less tolerant of variance. I've got more pics of the subs and some 50yd targets that I'll get up later. Function was what I was after first. Accuracy was hit and miss with vertical stringing being the main issue, which goes back to reloading technique. But, 2 sets of one hole groups from 5 shots did happen.
Here is a 7.62x25 on the left and the TMag family from 85 to 200
The 180's and 200's will feed from the right stock mag. The 125's and 147's may need some help, and the 85's definitely need some assistance. The adjustable gas block tones down the system on the high end. For you velocity junkies out there, I stopped at 2150 on the 85's and 1750 on the 125's. Is there more available? The brass said so, but QL said the 85's were done, based on 38ksi pressure. The brass was on its 10th reload and still looked fine. I have mocked up some 5.56 brass but have not tried them yet. That would eliminate the "custom" bolt. So, on to the questions:
Will this fire cheap surplus Tokarev ammo? No.
So what's the point? There is none, other than it's a simple cost effective conversion that uses standard components.
Why not do a 762x40, it will kick this things ass? Yes it will, after you make brass, dies, and a reamer.
This has been done before. Probably, there are a lot sharper guys out there than me and I'm sure Marty or JPN or Tony or RW or somebody already figured out how simple this one is to do.
What are the spec's? I'll get them out when I make a go-gauge.
Thanks to Z for sparking the interest in this, its been a blast. The subs are fun and the 85's are LOUD ;D
Let the fun begin....
And here is the TMagnum
This is from an 11" pistol. This project just started about a week ago so there is still a lot of testing and proving to do. For the sub side, I started with 147gr bulk bullets and a pistol length gas system. Using Quick Load to try and preview results, I then would load up 125, 147, and 180's. You could definitely hear when you dropped below the super sonic level. The barrel is 1:10 twist and I have very little experience with sub loads, if you don't count 38's and 45's, so I really did not know what to expect. The powder is Lil' Gun. The pistol gas system would cycle everything until we dropped below the sub level with the 125's and the 147 were about 50%. Then we concentrated on the 180's and 200's. Got both of them running at 1000 fps and feeding from a Colt mag with the black follower. One thing that is really clear is that reloading the sub round is much less tolerant of variance. I've got more pics of the subs and some 50yd targets that I'll get up later. Function was what I was after first. Accuracy was hit and miss with vertical stringing being the main issue, which goes back to reloading technique. But, 2 sets of one hole groups from 5 shots did happen.
Here is a 7.62x25 on the left and the TMag family from 85 to 200
The 180's and 200's will feed from the right stock mag. The 125's and 147's may need some help, and the 85's definitely need some assistance. The adjustable gas block tones down the system on the high end. For you velocity junkies out there, I stopped at 2150 on the 85's and 1750 on the 125's. Is there more available? The brass said so, but QL said the 85's were done, based on 38ksi pressure. The brass was on its 10th reload and still looked fine. I have mocked up some 5.56 brass but have not tried them yet. That would eliminate the "custom" bolt. So, on to the questions:
Will this fire cheap surplus Tokarev ammo? No.
So what's the point? There is none, other than it's a simple cost effective conversion that uses standard components.
Why not do a 762x40, it will kick this things ass? Yes it will, after you make brass, dies, and a reamer.
This has been done before. Probably, there are a lot sharper guys out there than me and I'm sure Marty or JPN or Tony or RW or somebody already figured out how simple this one is to do.
What are the spec's? I'll get them out when I make a go-gauge.
Thanks to Z for sparking the interest in this, its been a blast. The subs are fun and the 85's are LOUD ;D
Let the fun begin....