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22 TCM
Aug 4, 2015 5:04:54 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Aug 4, 2015 5:04:54 GMT -5
Sorry 22, I had a couple of extra hrs and a blank in my hand for a DI TCM but I got side tracked...
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22 TCM
Aug 4, 2015 14:40:57 GMT -5
Post by 22boomer on Aug 4, 2015 14:40:57 GMT -5
Would be nice to see a DI TCM since the formed brass is available and it works with the standard AR bolt face. I saw your other project and I would imagine that it takes some mill work to make the lock-up lugs.
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22 TCM
Sept 19, 2015 12:38:33 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Sept 19, 2015 12:38:33 GMT -5
Info on the TCM 9R from the firearms blog.... "AUTHOR’S NOTE: While at the range on Monday, the RIA representative I talked to did not point out an important change for the Glock conversion kit. In order for the .22TCM cartridge to fit standard Glock 9mm magazines, the engineers had to shorten the cartridge ever so slightly, hence the 9R designation. I was unaware of that change until Tuesday and apologize for any confusion. Phil was in contact with an RIA representative who couldn’t provide an exact measurement for the shorter casing, but advised that the difference was very minimal – in the thousandths of an inch. The article has been updated to reflect the new information. - See more at: www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/01/20/rock-island-arms-22tcm-glock-conversion/#sthash.2xlmhJ63.dpufThis cartridge is not .22 TCM, as noted below. It is called .22 TCM 9R, which stands for "9mm Revolution." It is ballistically inferior to the standard .22 TCM round, designed with a 35gn bullet (TCM is 40gn) to reduce the OAL from .45 ACP dimensions to true 9x19 dimensions. Standard TCM has a muzzle velocity of roughly 2150 FPS (+/- 50FPS) out of a five-inch barrel. This is estimated to be in the 1900-2000 FPS ballpark out of standard full-sized polymer 9mms, of which Armscor intends to support most" so does that mean it won't chamber in a std TCM?
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22 TCM
Mar 7, 2016 13:43:22 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 7, 2016 13:43:22 GMT -5
Finally 22! I've got a 22 TCM DI on the bench and should have it profiled today, doing a 1:12 twist. Will get some reloading done after this batch of 22 RE brass is done. Then we'll get some chrono readings from it.
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22 TCM
Mar 7, 2016 18:30:13 GMT -5
Post by 22boomer on Mar 7, 2016 18:30:13 GMT -5
Finally 22! I've got a 22 TCM DI on the bench and should have it profiled today, doing a 1:12 twist. Will get some reloading done after this batch of 22 RE brass is done. Then we'll get some chrono readings from it. That is great news!!!! I love the 22RE but forming the brass can be a pain and the 22TCM brass can be gotten already formed. I'd love to see some rounds using something like the 40gr V-max and loaded into a M1 carbine mag and using your carbine magazine magwell adapter.
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22 TCM
Mar 8, 2016 7:44:00 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 8, 2016 7:44:00 GMT -5
Getting ready to cut the chamber. Then park and do some loading. Cleaning up the barrel from the park process and getting a fresh upper receiver together for the new 22 TCM Carbine. Going to use our standard BTE adjustable gas block to handle the gas from the pistol port. As soon as this batch of 22 Reeds Express brass is done we'll swap over to 22 TCM and come up with some hand loads. Going to start with 13gr of H110 and the Speer 40gr Varmint bullet. With its soft point and flat base it will easily seat to the base of the neck and fit a Tok mag. Est velocity is 2800 fps. I don't know if I can set up my chrono at the shop or not.........
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22 TCM
Mar 8, 2016 17:16:42 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 8, 2016 17:16:42 GMT -5
OK 22, there ya go! Just test fired and things are ok, 11gr of H110 and 40 gr Speer Varminters at 1.34" oal. Using our stock Tok mag & adapter I'm a bit concerned as the rounds are not as snug in the mag as the 22 RE or Tok rounds are. We'll load up some more and give it a go. I'll see if I have room to get the chronograph set up and also see what the M1 mag I've got here does. Upper is for sale.
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22 TCM
Mar 8, 2016 18:56:26 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 8, 2016 18:56:26 GMT -5
All loads with H110 powder, Speer 40gr Varmint 1017 bullet & OAL of 1.34" 11.0 gr = 2641 fps 12.0 gr = 2860 fps 12.5 gr = 3025 fps
QL predicted 13.9gr max charge for 55,000 psi but it was also 300 fps low on velocity. Primers look ok and I can tune the gas down a bit as the bolt had no problem locking back with the pistol port location. Yes, there is a bit more room to go but 3000 fps ain't a bad plinker!
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22 TCM
Mar 10, 2016 9:55:37 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 10, 2016 9:55:37 GMT -5
This will be my next course of action for the 22 TCM! From cast boolits forum user NHPaul regarding his RIA 1911 22 TCM: "OK finally found a use for that 8lb jug of LilGun in my garage!! LilGun is the perfect powder IMHO for 22 tcm. Just a bit faster burning than H110. Huge fireball? gone. Still has a pretty good bark though. and I was getting 2300-2500 fps over the chrony. I shot some 11.0 grain lilgun with 47 grain cast GC bullets and 40 grain j-word bullets, cycled the gun fine and didnt get chronied. then I shot 11.5 grain of lilgun with the same bullets got errors shooting the 47 grain lead but the 40 grain Jacketed armscor bullets were all 2438-2502 fps no signs of over pressure, gun cycled flawlessly , No recoil of course. 11.5 grains is about all that will fit in a 22 tcm case." In his earlier post using H110 he was just over 2000 fps so he really picked it up with Lil Gun. Playing with neck turning and will change over to Lil Gun Other comments on the cast boolits forum was that 2400 really heat the little pistols up quick, excessively so.... and discussion on the Lil Gun "overheating and erosion" claims from a few years ago. All Lil Gun users have not seen any issue of this, nor have I. And, 22B, have you heard this? again from Cast Boolits NHPaul "Cut down 221 fireball dies which are working great though somewhat short for use on the progressive press. I am able to get very nice precise rounds out of them with a lot of care and attention. They end up being a nice small base die set." I'll have to review the .221 Fireball dimensions again. Here's a neat little video about forming 22 TCM brass from stock .223........ wow.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojZvkJ8BXRk it must be that shallow shoulder angle that makes it easy...
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22 TCM
Mar 10, 2016 12:38:41 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 10, 2016 12:38:41 GMT -5
Working on the Lil Gun reloading for the TCM and noticed my Quick Load had a working pressure of 55,000 psi, so it had to have been based on the 5.56 case not the factory brass. Researching the factory TCM info shows a working pressure of 38,000 psi (hmmm, another plus for the 22 uzi....) so I had to double check my last H110 load of 12.5gr. Sure enough, QL had it over 38,000 psi at 39,164 psi. The cases looked ok so we'll use 38k as a max and tip toe if we're going over. The same charge with Lil Gun shows 41.5ksi so we'll start the Lil Gun at 12 gr.
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22 TCM
Mar 11, 2016 12:08:55 GMT -5
Post by 22boomer on Mar 11, 2016 12:08:55 GMT -5
Working on the Lil Gun reloading for the TCM and noticed my Quick Load had a working pressure of 55,000 psi, so it had to have been based on the 5.56 case not the factory brass. Researching the factory TCM info shows a working pressure of 38,000 psi (hmmm, another plus for the 22 uzi....) so I had to double check my last H110 load of 12.5gr. Sure enough, QL had it over 38,000 psi at 39,164 psi. The cases looked ok so we'll use 38k as a max and tip toe if we're going over. The same charge with Lil Gun shows 41.5ksi so we'll start the Lil Gun at 12 gr. I ran into the pressure limit for the 22RE but the limit is for the action the case is being used in. The 22TCM is .223 brass but it's original use was for the Rock Island 9mm pistol conversion and that is limited to the 38,000 psi. When used in a DI AR-15 the pressure is more limited by the AR action not just the brass. I run the 22RE hot with no problems and reuse the cases over and over but these cases are the Sellier&Bellott not the Starline. I found the Starline did start to show the primer pockets had expanded after 5 or 6 reloads and the primers were a bit loose. I have found that the Starline brass can be really different from one lot to the next and some of the newer brass seems to work just great! The original limit on the 22RE was for CZ-52 pistol action that the round was originally designed for. I've used 12.5gr of lil' Gun with a 30gr barnes bullet with no problems and with very good accuracy. That was the load that I got 3200fps with.
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22 TCM
Mar 14, 2016 17:48:05 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 14, 2016 17:48:05 GMT -5
Just finished up a job so hope to knock some TCM out tomorrow!
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22 TCM
Mar 15, 2016 17:06:52 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 15, 2016 17:06:52 GMT -5
Loaded up 12.0gr of Lil Gun under the 40 gr sp Varmint. 3 shot avg 2966 fps 12.5 gr Lil Gun = 3190 fps with signs of pressure. Slight primer crater and bolt swipe. Max Max Lil Gun load. QL only showed 41.5ksi pressure and 2800 fps so its off a little bit on this small case. As a check I would have to deep seat the bullets to 1" oal and generate 86ksi to hit 3180 fps. Or bump the charge up to 14.2 gr @ 64.5ksi. Either way its over pressure. Also used the QL function to list 100% fill loads. Highest velocity with lowest pressure was Lil Gun, altho everything over 2900 fps was over pressure based on 55ksi. Doing a pressure list using 55000 psi, 13.6 gr Lil Gun was at the top with 3030 fps followed by 13.8gr Win 296 at 3023. H110 was 8th with 13.9 gr @2962 fps. So we are at the top of the chain with the stock TCM brass, looks like a solid 3000 fps round.
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22 TCM
Mar 15, 2016 17:29:16 GMT -5
Post by 22boomer on Mar 15, 2016 17:29:16 GMT -5
I liked to use the Barnes 30gr Varmint Grenade bullets but they got popular and hard to find so i tried the 34gr Dog Town bullets with a bit less Lil' Gun. I honestly don't know if the Dog Town bullets are as accurate as the Varmint Grenades since I used them for plinking. The Varmint Grenades were over a load of 12.5gr of Lil' Gun with CCI 450 primers but in Seller&Bellot brass formed to 22RE -- not reformed .223 brass or 22TCM brass. Looks like what you got with the 40gr bullet is right at the max like my 30gr Varmint Grenade in the 22RE. I'd love to see what you could get using the Barnes bullets or maybe the Dog Town bullets. It sure is easier to buy formed cases than to make good 22RE cases.
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22 TCM
Mar 16, 2016 8:45:27 GMT -5
Post by HMC710 on Mar 16, 2016 8:45:27 GMT -5
ya know, for a nominal fee I can test any load you want! I think the TCM brass, from the limited shooting I've done with it, is made as economically as possible for once time use. Just from the marks left from the shell holder from running through the sizing die shows that its soft. Maybe a few passes through the AR will harden it up a bit. Going to knock out another carbine barrel and move on.
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