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Post by bigbores on Feb 28, 2015 15:00:53 GMT -5
Just wanted to say hello. OK so the reason I'm here?... I bought a double stack 1911 in 22TCM/9mm combo gun, wanted to start reloading the TCM but the dies are really hard to get right now. while I was looking for supply's I found out both the 22TCM and the 7.62x25 can be made out of .223 brass which got me thinking,"why can't I chamber my 1911 in 7.62? First thing I did was try factory 7.62 ammo in the double stack magazine, first problem I found was the OAL being too long even for the longer 38super magazine that the 22TCM uses, OK how abut deep seating the rounds to an OAL 1.30 (.080 shorter). Bingo! 17 rounds loaded right up in the double stack 1911 magazine . Next was finding a barrel, after searching I found one that I thought might fit, wasn't quite a drop in but after a few hours I got it fitted for my gun, tried my modified rounds and found it feeds the beautifully. Anyway I'm excited!...got reloading dies / TOK brass on the way...can't wait to try shooting it, found this Forum and thought I would post what I was doing. Please forgive if this has been done and covered here already. Picture from left 22TCM, 7.62T, and a 9MM
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 1, 2015 9:00:49 GMT -5
Bigbores, That is interesting -- where did you find a barrel and what modifications were needed to make it work? I've tried making 7.62 tok brass using .223/5.56 brass and it's kind of a pain -- at least I think so. When the brass is cut down and formed in a Tok FL die you will find that the neck is too thick and will need to be either reamed out or neck turned -- I don't like to have to do either one but but reaming out the neck may be the easier way, although I have not done that. The good side of making the Tok brass from .223/5.56 brass is if you shoot in an area where the brass can be lost it's not a big deal -- at least to me. I have Starline brass and saved my Sellier&Bellot brass so I have a fair amount of commercial reloadable brass and making it from .223/5.56 would not really do me much good but it might work great for you. If you decided to ream out the neck I honestly don't know the exact size the reamer must be to work correctly on freshly formed 7.62 Tok brass. If you were to locate that information could you please post it.
Edit to add: I went looking to see what size reamer was needed and noticed that different .223 cases may or may not need reaming due to their wall thickness. I would imagine if I took a freshly formed Starline Tok case and measured the inside of the neck, it would give me a good idea of the size of the reamer I would need on the reformed .223 brass but I don't know just yet.
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 1, 2015 13:19:45 GMT -5
I figured I'd try making some 7.62X25 Tok Brass using range pickup .223 brass. I didn't try any milsurp. The brass I used was Fiocchi .223 brass and it came out nice and clean. The neck wall thickness is 0.014" and Starline is 0.013" so they are darn close. I made a dummy round and dropped it into my 7.62 Tok carbine chamber and the bolt closed easy on it and it ejected easy. The dummy round is pictured below. The bullet is a Sellier&Bellott bullet I pulled from one of their commercial rounds. If you like making your own stuff this was actually kinda fun. I was going to put a crimp in the neck but I believe my Tok crimper is adjusted off and will put a real dent in the neck. I need to look into that.
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Post by bigbores on Mar 1, 2015 13:38:06 GMT -5
22bomer, I got the barrel from www.gunpartscorp.com/ad/1289530.htmAs for fitting it, the locking rings were too tight for the barrel to lock into the slide, also the barrels dia was to big for the barrel bushing, I used a file on the rings and went slow, only needed to remove a few .001s barrel was turned down with 400grit sand paper, again it was only a couple of .001s over sized. I will probably just buy starline brass but here's some videos Ive found on making both the TCM and TOK brass from the 223 www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojZvkJ8BXRkwww.youtube.com/watch?v=LlAFF79us8U
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 1, 2015 13:52:09 GMT -5
I went to this guy at: www.300blktalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=179&t=80842 for a jig that fits on a mini-chop saw for cutting a ton of .223 brass for the 300 Blackout. The Guy also makes jigs for the 7.62X25 Tok and the 22TCM. It's just a thought in case you plan on doing a big pile of brass -- it makes cutting to size go so much faster. Thanks a bunch for the info on the barrel. I'll have to look into that. By the way, I got the mini chop saw from Harbor Freight cheap.
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Post by bigbores on Mar 1, 2015 14:07:29 GMT -5
Thank you for the heads up on the Jig! I will probably order one for the TCM and just trim for the Tok
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Post by HMC710 on Mar 2, 2015 18:17:33 GMT -5
Great job Bigbores! Welcome to the show
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Post by bigbores on Mar 10, 2015 16:26:12 GMT -5
Got the Jig but I think they sent the wrong one! Brass ends up longer then a loaded round, to bad it looks well built. Guess I will fire up the end-mill and make my own.
Added 3/20/2015 I was wrong, product works and works good. I hope I didn't stop someone from buying one.
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 13, 2015 6:33:09 GMT -5
Bigbores, isn't the jig adjustable in the mini chop saw? The one I got for 300 Blackout could be moved front to back a bit by resetting the hold-down screws.
By the way, I did a bunch of 7.62 Tok brass using LC .223 brass and it worked great and the necks didn't need any mods. The base of the brass puffs out a bit to fit the chamber but once it's done it stays that way, even after FL sizing.
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Post by bigbores on Mar 20, 2015 21:54:32 GMT -5
I was wrong and I edited my post, sorry.
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 21, 2015 9:01:13 GMT -5
When I cut down my .223 brass to make my 7.62X25 I clamped the .223 brass in the jaws that came with the chop saw. I had to mark the first case for the 7.62X25 length so I could line it up with the saw blade and clamp a stop on the chop saw so I had something to butt the mouth of .223 brass up to each time. Kind of a pain so if I planned to do this as a regular thing I would get the jig also. I was wondering if the converted .223 brass would be able to handle higher pressure than factory 7.62X25 brass but I guess I probably will never find out since I'm only shooting cast bullets right now. I have a Lee .308 bullet sizer and I discovered that a long time ago I got a pile of 32 caliber cast bullets for an old 32-20 Stevens single shot. I haven't shot the old Stevens in years so I decided to take some of the 32 caliber bullets and run them through the .308 sizer. It actually re-sized the bullets to .309" which would be perfect for 30 caliber cast bullets. I need to load up a bunch and see how they shoot.
Have you tried shooting the 22 TCM in that barrel you got?
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Post by bigbores on Mar 21, 2015 22:03:32 GMT -5
Yes the 22TCM is fun! Shot it at an indoor range, very loud, has a visible fireball, and recoil is little more than 22LR. Had several people come over to see what all the noise was(one guy next to me shooting a 9MM moved LOL).
Ive got 1000 100GR powder coated Hardcast bullets coming for the tok barrel there sized .312 so I need to bump them down I will order/try the Lee .308 die.
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 24, 2015 6:35:07 GMT -5
What is the coating on the bullets? The paperwork with the bullet sizer says the bullets need to be lubed before running through the sizer so I just sprayed mine with some of that case lube used when full length sizing cartridge cases. My bullets were already lubed in their lube grooves so I didn't want to add the sticky Lee stuff that comes with the bullet sizer. By the way, where did you get the 100gr coated bullets?
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Post by bigbores on Mar 24, 2015 10:54:14 GMT -5
Powder coating is basically plastic that is charged Statically so it sticks to metal then heated until it melts, I cast my own then coat and size them they shoot quit well in my 327Fed without being lubed and without leading. (got 1000 cast up but I haven't coated them yet) Here's a link that got me started castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?171403-Powder-Coating-Boolits
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 24, 2015 13:39:12 GMT -5
I thought you bought the bullets from a commercial supplier. Bullet casting involves a little too much in equipment and such so I've bought mine. I had fair luck with the larger calibers but not so with sizes like 22 and 30 caliber. I keep trying and have those resized 32 caliber bullets to see if they will be accurate at all. I've seen the plastic coated bullets and they really look cool. Sure would like to know how they shoot for you -- I just don't have any luck with cast. By the way, if you are shooting the 7.62X25 in a carbine You can duplicate the subsonic velocities used in the 300 Blackout using the heavier bullets and since you cast, that might be something to think about. I've run 200gr jacketed bullets in my 7.62 carbine but the best was the 168gr Sierra bullets. My carbine is a 16" barrel, not one of those shorties that the 300 Blackout guys use. My favorites are the Sierra 150gr and the Sierra 168gr matchkings. If you have a carbine you should try the heavy cast with that powder coat.
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