I was talking to a friend and he brought up the 30 Luger that he had in a browning Hi power. I was thinking it might work nice in an AR carbine with the short gas system or maybe a blowback. I believe the 30 Luger fits in 9mm magazines so it would work in an AR using a standard 9mm magblock and magazines. The 30 Lugar cartridge case is a bit smaller than the 7.62X25 Tokarev case but gives pretty good performance since most commercial loads use a 96gr bullet and have a pistol muzzle velocity of around 1220fps. I was thinking it might make a good little varmint hunter and could be an easy switch for people who already have a 9mm carbine.
Last Edit: Nov 18, 2015 18:33:14 GMT -5 by HMC710: Thread name change
Just did some "what ifs" on Quick Design and Quick Load with the 30 Luger which quickly turned into the 22 Luger. The Luger, or 7.62x21, is a .130" shorter version of the 7.62x25 Tokarev and basically puts it in the 9mm envelope, by design. It was the original caliber in the Luger and shortened from the Mauser / Tokarev version to fit into the handle of the Luger. Apparently the German war department wanted more energy and the 9mm was born, or something like that. Case capacity wise, the 30 Luger at 14.29 gr H2O is actually more than the 9mm with its 13.3gr capacity, yet obviously short of the Tokarev at 16.8gr. So in the big scheme of things the 30 Luger can hit 1500 fps out of a pistol with energy close to the 9mm. And of course, that brings us right back to the 9mm vs 45acp debate. So without re-hashing all of that, what are the benefits of the Luger class rounds? The obvious reason is getting into the 9mm envelope. From a pistol stand point it really jumps up on the velocity scale but where does that put us in availability? In a few words, no where. Do a search on 30 Luger ammo, $24/50 is the cheapest I found but still listed as out of stock. Cheaper than dirt said "no longer available." So for those of us that reload, that means finding brass and dies. Midway shows out of stock with no back order. No ammo, no reloading, no gain in performance, however, we get into the 9mm envelope. If we have to jump through all these hoops, is it worth it? From the BRD aspect, yes. If we can feed these from the Uzi mags, it's Hell Yes. So if we are going to do something with a not so available round, why not just design one for the best of all worlds?
I can't say it's a worthwhile project I just thought that if the ammo (like any ammo) comes available it does fit in the 9mm magazine. I like the idea of the 22X21 by the way. Funny thing is the 30 Luger uses a 93 grain bullet in commercial loads -- the 7.62X25 Tok is like 85gr. Wonder what the 30 Luger could do with the 85gr bullet? Too bad there isn't a nice supply of milsurp 30 Luger. Oh well, it was a thought -- still like the 22X21 idea though.
To be honest, I really like the 22 Reed Express. No trimming, no neck turning -- just form, load and shoot. My only problem was finding a magazine that would work with them. You know about that.
I've been messing with the 22TCM and it looks like it will feed from the PPS magazine but can't be 100% sure without having a barrel made and test firing using the PPS mags. you know how some things will hand cycle fine but won't work under actual firing conditions. Same thing is true the other way -- won't hand cycle but will work great under actual firing conditions -- go figure.
I was thinking about what you said about the 30 Luger being made into the 22X21 -- with 30gr to 40gr bullets should fit into 9mm mags. Don't know if it would work in a 9mm blowback system but if it did would make a nice little switch barrel conversion for 9mm carbine owners. Maybe 6mmX21!
Last Edit: May 8, 2013 11:21:28 GMT -5 by 22boomer
That was my thought, give the 9mm BB guys a choice. Gonna be a small bullet........
I honestly don't know how many 7.62 Tok BB owners there are but this would give them another choice also. I've got three different versions of the 7.62 tok -- blowback, a whisper version with pistol gas system and your short gas system. I personally don't want to screw with the DI versions but the blowback would be easy. Something like a 22X21 would make a nice little plinker/varminter.
I think the slightly larger 22 Reed Express would be a bit too much for the 9mm Blowbacks but would be a nice alternative setup for the DI 7.62 Tok guys. If you can work out the PPS mag feed, the 22 Reed Express would make a darn good varmint shooter.
Last Edit: May 13, 2013 9:17:20 GMT -5 by 22boomer
I have about 10 30 cal short brls on the bench begging for a home and we are going to 30x9 them! We already get there on the way to the 22 Uzi so we'll stop a few steps short and do a 30 Uzi, why the H not.... reamers are that hard to make...
Playing with Quick Design and Quick Load shows we can match Tokarev ballistics with the 30x9. I've got 1000 more brass coming and am going to do 500 in 30 cal. Will try and get a reamer done Monday and chamber one of the pistol barrels on the bench waiting for a home. Haven't figured out a die set yet so will have to ponder on that.