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Post by HMC710 on May 23, 2013 7:55:01 GMT -5
I work my mags over + the lower lugs on the barrel extension. It was (is) raining so I didn't go out and do much more testing. I did however load up some 55gr Speer flat base to 1.5" and used our M1 Carbine set up. Worked 100%. The first round sets funny but the rest function. I'm going to try some follower work and see if we can fix that. As far as the blow back, the 22 RE should be much easier on the system because of the lighter bullets. The recoil is about 1/2 of the 9mm so I am hoping to be able to lighten things up a bit. I loaded up more of the 35 gr, 55gr, and 62gr SS109 bulks that I've got last night plus some 35gr at 1.275" just in case......
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Post by HMC710 on May 24, 2013 6:40:27 GMT -5
Didn't get the blow back done yesterday, wasted a bunch of time on a 1911 barrel OK, one more time......
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Post by HMC710 on May 24, 2013 11:17:22 GMT -5
Got Blow Back barrel chambered and ready for park tank. 1:12 twist this time. Trying another 1911 brl......... Did a blow back in .936" bull barrel configuration. Got it parked and assembled - ready to test. Also did a 1911 barrel - kind of - I cheated and made a 2 pc. Did some reading up on it and some mfg actually do it. Basically bored a 45 barrel and sleaved it with the 22 "liner". Close chambered it, fit the barrel, (first one I've ever done, kinda time consuming. Now wonder those guys get $$ ) then did the final chambering. It actually feeds and ejects dummy rounds Pistol is a Llama Mini-Max and brl is about 4.25" long, cant wait for live round in this thing ;D Hopefully tomorrow will be dry and can tick of the neighbors a bit...
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Post by 22boomer on May 24, 2013 18:16:28 GMT -5
About that liner in the 45acp barrel -- did you make the liner from a piece of .224 caliber barrel or does somebody actually sell a .224 liner big enough in diameter to be used in a 45 cal. barrel?
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Post by HMC710 on May 26, 2013 10:48:11 GMT -5
WARNING: DO NOT DUPLICATE ANY OF THIS LOAD DATA The loads listed before are TOO HOT - for my chambers. I tested the first loads in the Gas upper and everything seemed fine. QL said 30,000 psi so I "ASSUMED" I was ok. Had a case head separation on the Blow Back and pierced primers on the 1911. Going to go through all the chambers again today and see where I am. One thing I do know is that building / testing three different barrels at once with various loads gets confusing - so, lets see what the numbers say when I pull things apart this morning, A lot of testing yesterday with some interesting results. And Pictures.... back at the beginning.... 221 length case, 9mm Win Mag (Tok Magnum / 22 RE Mag), and 22 Reed Express. The RE with 62gr SS109 and 55gr Sierra. Here is my DI upper with pistol length gas system. Running a 16" barrel with a 1:7 or 1:8 twist if I remember, using carbine buffer and spring. My starting load was 11gr of Lil Gun with the 35gr VMax @ 1.35" oal and 22ksi pressure, per QL, I also ran same load with 55gr @ 1.55" and 32ksi pressure to try in the M1 Carbine mags. As a precaution, I ran the 35gr load at 1.250" oal and it showed 23ksi pressure just in case I got them mixed up. Now - taking the 55gr bullet down to 1.350" does cause a pressure problem - 44ksi according to QL. Did I get one mixed up in there? With such a small case, pressures go up fast with seating depth. I tested all loads to see if I was in the rifling and none of them showed signs. Fired cases show a .004" - .005" expansion but I need to do more follow up on that. Because of the pressure signs and necking down a 30 cal, it could be a case of thick neck walls so I need to verify more of that data. I did set the chronograph up and got from 2550 to 2950 fps from the various loads. One thing I notice this morning is my data on this computer is different on the one at home so I need to find out what data is real here. The upper in the lower part of the pic is my BB barrel that I had the case head separation on. As soon as I pulled the trigger it was a very hard jolt. The case head was in the BCG and the rest of the case is still in the barrel. Testing with dummy rounds fed in and out of the barrel with no issues. Will pull this one apart and see what we find. Last on the list is the MiniMax coversion This is a Llama MiniMax 9 that I converted 45 barrels to 22 Reed Express. I made the sleeves from 1:12 twist remnant from the Blow Back upper. I ruined the first one and got the 2nd one. I need to do a lot more research on fitting 1911 barrels before I do another one because I am sure there is a set procedure on what to do first and my final fit is not Match Grade at all. I did get 2" groups at 1785 fps with my reduced load of 10gr of Lil Gun. The 11gr load expanded the unsupported portion of the case and had two cases of pierced primers. Once I dropped to 10 gr, cases looked great. The recoil, again according to QL, is 1/2 of a 9mm with the 11gr load and 1/3 with the 10gr load. Now, having said all that, the velocity from a 4" barrel was estimated at 1400 fps and we got 1785. That tells me there is some internal data that isn't right on the case information. I'll dig more into that as we progress. But again, my home data showed higher numbers so I need to dig into this more. Have a great day and be safe
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Post by HMC710 on May 26, 2013 14:15:31 GMT -5
Got the blow back measured and together...... With the barrel out and cleaned I checked headspace. With the newly formed brass I got from .007" to .010", way too much, but enough to cause the head separation? With sized fire formed brass I got .002" to .004". much better. The shoulder does get blown out a bit on the fire formed brass. I also checked the depth of the bolt @ .132". Chambering to a .1250" stickout would give .007" head space. Next one will have to measure our parts first instead of hitting my numbers. Used our Tok Blow back adapter with Tok Mags and did not have any feed issues. Started with an H3 buffer and carbine spring. Loaded 1 round of the 10gr load seated to 1.275" - 1.280" and no case separation and the round was not ejected - however, I did not have the adapter with the ejector in place.... Tried a couple more rounds single shot to check for problems using all fire formed reloads. Loaded up 3 rounds and fired them off. Cases flew out of the upper and hit the opposite wall of the shop - over 30' away I had to put a rag over the ejection port to catch any brass. This was all done in my test chamber but still, doesn't add up to me. There was very little recoil. I was hoping it would be like the 1911 where I had to lighten things up dramatically to get it to cycle. That would drop all the inertia way down in the upper and smooth things out. Going to pack it up and head to the range and see what the chrono and paper say with the 1:12 twist barrel.
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Post by HMC710 on May 27, 2013 9:45:55 GMT -5
Set up the chrono on the blow back upper with the 10gr / 35gr loads. 2644 fps with 15 fps spread on 4 shots. QL estimated 2350 fps so like I said, some research needs to be done. Cases flew out of the upper with the H3 / Carbine spring set up. Quick Load: Took some fired cases and entered the info into Quick Design and imported into QL. Took a scale and measured 16.1gr of water capacity in the S&B case. Entered all this data into QL and still came up short on velocity with the 16" barrels, 2350 vs 2643. To me that means my pressures are way up also. I also did different powder configurations and could not match my results. I dropped the barrel length to 4" like I have in the Llama and presto 1750 fps just like I got from the chronograph. Sent another note to Ron Reed for his input. Hope things are ok on his end.
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Post by 22boomer on May 27, 2013 14:17:01 GMT -5
I got an e-mail from Ron that said he was OK and the tornado missed him 3/4 of a mile. He was going to try and help out.
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Post by HMC710 on May 28, 2013 7:36:17 GMT -5
Yes. he sent me a note. Said try using small rifle primers in the hotter loads. Also did some wgt comparisons on the 1911 clone. My barrel weights 2x the original + I have 1/2 the projected recoil so that's where some of the lack of cycling comes in. Will see what the next one does, going to try one on a spare 10mm slide. Hopefully the larger bolt face won't be a deal killer and I have to go buy a 9mm.....
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 5, 2013 7:42:08 GMT -5
Have 1000 of the Aimscore 22 TCM 40gr JFN bullets coming. Got my 5k of small rifle primers yesterday. Loaded up some cast 55gr RNGC boolits last night to "under 1.28" Fit all the 9mm mags ok, had to go a bit deeper on the Glock. Will try and test them out today if I get a chance. Bro said the RNGC is a great bullet but just blows through things, he's got a custom FNGC that explodes he's digging out for us....
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 5, 2013 8:15:38 GMT -5
Some old info -- Ron Reed used to make frangible bullets although I believe they were 9mm. They worked great in a video he made -- shot through a target or something with a steel plate a few feet back. The bullets turned to powder on the steel -- like gallery bullets do. Wonder if he could make some 22 caliber bullets for the 22RE in the same shape as the ARMSCOR 22TCM bullets. The bullets must have been made of some type of compressed aluminum powder mix that only weighed like 60gr and had a high muzzle velocity out of a pistol. I have no idea what the outcome would be if an intruder was shot with a frangible bullet.
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 5, 2013 9:11:34 GMT -5
Severe pain and confusion ?
Marty ter Weeme said he experimented with aluminum bullets from a 45 and 296 powder. Said if the muzzle flash didn't get you the hyper velocity would. I tried swaging some from all the alum chips I have but can't get them to hold together.....
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 5, 2013 9:32:42 GMT -5
I'm not real sure aluminum is good for a rifled barrel but Ron (I think) mixed something with the metal powder. I bought a bunch of milsurp .308 frangible bullets that looked about the size of a 150gr Sierra ballistic tipped bullet that only weighed 105gr and I loaded them into my 7.62 Tok brass. All shot fine till I tried (for some dumb reason) to put a crimp in the case neck. it screwed the bullets up along with the accuracy.
By the way, looks like you set those round-nosed lead bullets at about the same height as the bullets found in the 22TCM. Hopefully, the ARMSCOR bullets will give you better case volume when set at the same overall length.
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Post by HMC710 on Jun 5, 2013 18:05:16 GMT -5
We'll find out in a few days. 7075 aluminum is stronger than most brass and copper, its on one of my "seeing as I have nothing else to do today" lists. Lots of 224gc cast bullets out there but at $10/100 hopefully won't have to worry about it. Will try the 1911 when I get home, hope the heavier bullet will put some oomph in the slide...
55gr RNGC bullets made a difference in the 1911 and cycled the slide. Ran them out of the original 9mm magazine. Tightened up the hood on the barrel a bit but lots of play on the pin/link. Like I said, don't know much about fitting and timing these things. It is time to try a government model barrel tho.
Also need to get our Cuzi adapter modified for stock uzi mags so I can put that case of magazines to work.
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Post by 22boomer on Jun 7, 2013 8:02:28 GMT -5
When you get the 22RE up and working in the blowbacks do you think they will be accurate enough to be used as a small game hunter?
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