converting .223 brass and LEE dies....

[sharky47]

Hey guys, new here - but been reloading a while. I am in line to get one of the new 1/8 AR barrels that Heavy Metal is making. I have been shooting .300/221 Fireball for a couple years now, all my brass is made from Lake City 5.56, and it works 100% perfectly.

So I was playing around with making some Tok brass last night with some of that cut down 5.56 - and it's kinda annoying me. The first step where I decap and form the brass works great, little bit of lube and out comes a nice looking case. But then I notice that these dies do not have an expander ball to size the inside of the neck on the down stroke.

So I throw in the neck expanding die, which is actually marked .30 Luger in this die set. I bell the mouth just a bit and attempt to seat a Sierra 165 Game King. I am going to machine up a bullet seater stem just for seating long bullets in this case, cause the stock one sucks. The bullet went in a bit crooked at first, but seemed to straiten up if I seated it a bit farther down. Is this normal?

Anyone else a little underwhelmed by the Lee dies in this caliber? Normally I LOVE Lee dies and prefer them over RCBS.

Is it a requirement to neck turn converted 5.56 brass with the Heavy Metal barrels?

Do the heavy Metal barrels have room in the chamber to leave the trim length a little longer to get some more bearing surface on the case mouth to hold the bullet more securely?

Thanks in advance!

[greywuuf]

While I have no first hand knowledge of HMC's chambers I can only assume that the neck will have to be thinned extensively on converted .223 brasss. Especially LC military brass. if the chambers are cut generously enough to fit it un turned it would be seriously loose on "stock" Tok brass. Measure the outside neck diameter of one of your loaded round and compare that with the SAMI Spec for a Tok. I think you will find that you are at least "10 over " ( .010") as an average of Factory brass I have around most neck area wall thickness tends to run from .004" to .006" ( best as i can measure with standard workshop tools, a real wall thickness measurement takes some slightly more expensive tools to measure well) most cut down brass will have a wall thickness of closer to .020" to .030" or more depending on how close to the base of the brass you get. Even IF the chamber was specially cut to handle that wall thickness you would Still have increased pressure because it takes a lot more force to expand the case mouth enough to release the bullet. in cartridge conversion your Goal is usually to duplicate the dimensions of the original case.

[HMC710]

Tokarev Chambers:
#1. Surplus ammo and SAAMI specs are unrelated.
#2. Surplus ammo and Tokarev spec reamers are unrelated.
#3. Surplus ammo and anything else, is unrelated.
#4. Surplus ammo and a "spec" chamber doesn't work.
"Tim, I just chambered a barrel and it don't work! What the #$% is going on man?" Actual phone calls.
Our barrels are designed to handle as much of a variation of the surplus ammo and still function. I have two custom Tokarev reamers that I made and one spec reamer. I started with our reamers and worked up using the spec reamer. Using my reamer is the best thing I could have done. If there had not been a lead time on the spec reamer and I started with it, I would have been the one on the phone to people asking what the #$%? The first barrel I did with spec reamer and guage I stopped, called the mfg, was assured it was right, and still sent the stuff back for verification. I assumed the spec reamer would match the reloading dies and I wanted to get out of the reamer business. I use Lee dies for reloading and my reloads work in the barrels I have chambered.
If you are converting brass, turn the necks. If you want a custom barrel let me know but be prepared to run your custom brass in it.

I am looking into making a bullet seater for the Lee die for the longer stuff so stay tuned. The 1:8 barrels are going on next and I hope to have some time to work on the seater for this project.
Tim
Heavy Metal

[sharky47]

Make sense.

Ok - so - since I have no experience in neck turning as I have never had a cartridge that required it........which one should I buy?

I don't mind spending a reasonable amount of money to get one that actually works - what are you guys using and what are your opinions on them?

[HMC710]

Do a search on inside neck turning or reaming. Wilson makes inside hand and machine reamers. I've got an outside Lyman or Forrester, but I don't think I ever used it. You use it like a case trimmer, run the case up to a mandrel and cut the neck like a lathe. You can adjust how much you cut, but it leaves an edge where you stop. With inside reamers you have to watch wall thickness like was talked about above. Take too much and you don't get enough tension. I know BR shooters have them in .0005" increments. If you try inside by hand, its hard to get a straight cut.

[sharky47]

I'm dumb, didn't even consider reaming out the inside instead!

Found a reamer here at the shop that may work, if not - I'll just order one, thanks for the help!

[greywuuf]

inside reaming works for me in several conversion calibers (.308 or -06 to .45 acp for instance) but it is finicky, if you form the case fisrt, the diameter of the inside hole depends on the thickness of the brass, the " spring back " you get when pulling it over an expander is dependant on the wall thickness and the hardness of the brass, I have found that most off the shelf reamers cut to the Fired brass dimension and then leave you with a very loose bullet fit, meaning at times I have had to resort to forming brass using cotton wadding and fire forming empty case, reaming then sizing again before I even ended up with a useable case. IF you had the perfect reamer for the individual batch of brass it could work the first time . its all kind of frusterating. i have found it much easier to outside turn using a forester case trimmer. Good luck and keep us informed!

[greywuuf]

just as an aside I have lee dies for the Tok most of my early dies were RCBS and all the ones I have purchased recently are Hornady. For my money i like them the best, though there is a bit less selection.