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Post by 22boomer on Mar 3, 2013 11:11:52 GMT -5
I believe I already said I ordered some of the 22 Micro Mag brass (100 pieces) and thought maybe I'd could make up some dummy rounds and see if they would feed from the PPS-43 mags better than the 22RE rounds. I'm not sure if there is any chance that they would actually work in a 22RE chamber without slightly reforming them but the big issue, at least for me if getting the 22 caliber rounds to work out of the PPS mags without jamming nose up in the barrel extension of the DI 22RE carbine I have. My only other choice is to try the BB version of something like the 7.62X25 carbine. That sounds stupid but the rounds would be dummies and it's a test of feeding only off a PPS mag into a BB chamber. It may screw up a few pieces of brass but then I only ordered the stuff for testing anyway and I never had a blowback version of the 22RE made. The 5.7X28 FN round works as a blowback in the FN pistol and the AR57 upper. I would imagine the 22 TCM or the 22 Micro Mag should work blowback also -- with the right weight buffer and a good buffer spring.
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 4, 2013 12:12:00 GMT -5
I tried cycling the 22 Reed Express through a blowback setup using a PPS-43 magazine. The setup I used was actually a 9mm upper since the reformed brass fits in the 9mm chamber and the shoulder in far enough back that the extractor couldn't catch the 22RE rim. All rounds fed fine except for the very last one and the nose of that round hit just at the edge of the bevel of the 9mm chamber. There may be a couple of reasons for that last round doing that and it may be I didn't have the PPS magazine adapter in high enough, the mag I used was for the 7.62X25 round in the blowback setup and maybe needs to have the mag notch cut a hair lower or the bevel on the chamber needs to be a hair larger and polished. I can't imagine what weight buffer and strength of buffer spring would be needed to allow the 22RE to work in a Colt type blowback but it looks like it be possible. Another possibility is the 22 TCM since the ammo is actually factory made so no reforming is necessary. I just don't know how the 22 TCM will stack in the PPS magazine although I ordered some of the brass and will see how it fits.
Edit to add: Another possibility is my PPS mag was set to be level at the top and maybe just a hair of vertical rise on the top of the mag would help aim the rounds more directly at the chamber. The 22 caliber bullets I have on the 22RE round are the Barnes varmageddon bullets with a small hollow point.
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Post by HMC710 on Mar 5, 2013 21:41:24 GMT -5
You are correct 22, our blow back Toks need the mag a bit higher so our adapter for the blow backs is different than the gas guns. So we'll have to do both versions and see how it goes. Theoretically, with the lighter bullet, recoil should be less than the Tok but I guess we'll find out. I might get home this weekend so we'll see how much time we can get on this
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 6, 2013 9:49:12 GMT -5
Like I said a few times before, it would be awesome if you could figure out how to get the 22 Reed Express to work in the PPS-43 mags. I use another magazine -- the CZ-24 mag -- but I would prefer to use the PPS mags since the magwell adapters are easy to find. The 22 Reed Express is really super when loaded to higher pressure and shot from a DI type AR action. If you can get the PPS mag to work with the 22RE then I would imagine you could get the 22 TCM to do the same thing.
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Post by HMC710 on Mar 6, 2013 21:34:39 GMT -5
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 7, 2013 18:46:46 GMT -5
Tim, I just got the 22 micro mag brass and it looks really nice. The picture below compares the 22 micro mag (on the left) to the 22 Reed Express (on the right). The 22 micro mag case (or 22TCM) measures about 1.024" in length and my 22 Reed Express case measures 0.987" in length. The 22 micro mag brass seems to have formed nice and sharp and is consistent in length. By the way, I didn't stuff any bullets in the brass but the 22MM brass fits nice in the PPS mags with enough room for something like up to 40gr V-max type bullet. The brass is a bit looser than the 22RE brass but the extra length seems to help stabilize the cartridge case in the magazine. I wonder if there was maybe a way to modify a Pmag to handle the 22 micro mag rounds? This is another look at the brass -- 22 micro mag on the left, .223 center, and the 22 Reed Express on the right.
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Post by HMC710 on Mar 8, 2013 11:55:45 GMT -5
Got to the shop and opened up pkg from Reeds Ammo Nice set of CH4D dies and a shiny PTG reamer. Now to try my hand at forming brass and see what happens! From the pics is sure seems like adopting the 22RE would be an easier route to take but maybe Fred Craig just wanted to do it his way. Can't argue with that
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 8, 2013 19:02:48 GMT -5
Now if you could just talk Ron Reed into producing 22RE brass again! The reason I got the 22 micro mag brass is I've made the 22RE using .223 brass before and it works great but doing it myself is a real pain. Buying the stuff pretty close to the right size only needs a little bit of work and I've got a pile of 22RE brass.
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Post by HMC710 on Mar 9, 2013 12:54:30 GMT -5
Looking at the data on the TCM vs RE and after forming some S&B brass to the Reeds Express last night I've come to the conclusion that RIA is running a short ass bullet On the left is our 7mm Fireball, then 22 Reeds Express Magnum, 22RE with SS109 , 22RE with 52gr Sierra Varmint. I forgot to grab the 35gr and 40gr bullets I picked up last week and bring them home The 22RE 52 gr is 1.40" and I think I seated it a bit too low. Forming brass was pleasant. Ran the S&B through std Tok sizer die and chamfered necks inside and out. Then using a wax type lube (forgot the brand but I'll never go back to gunk in a tube on a pad ever ever again....) ran the sized cases through the CH4D Reeds Express dies in one quick pass. I snuck up on the first couple but just running them through like you mean it worked out best. I did take the neck button from the decapper and polished it up with some 600 & 1000 grit paper. Formed cases come out from .981" - .991" in length. I'll give Ron a shout and see what stock length is. Now to make some barrels.....
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 9, 2013 17:23:17 GMT -5
I was back working on my 22RE stuff also. My case length comes to 0.98" and I check in a cartridge case gauge. Doing the 22RE with S&B brass is a breeze but it gets a bit harder with the Starline brass. I think Starline is harder and does not like being reformed into something else but I've had fair luck with the Starline 30 Mauser brass for some reason. Then I went to some of the 22 micro mag brass to reform into 22RE brass. the brass is all easy to form but the pain comes in when you have to trim the case and then neck turn the stuff. Now I remember why I hated doing the .223 brass to 22RE. I thought the 22 micro mag brass, being pretty close to 22RE, would be easy but that trimming and neck turning is a pain and I really don't want to do that unless absolutely necessary. I thought one of the shortcomings of the 22TCM was the fact that Rock Island uses something like a .38 Super magazine and, along with the longer cartridge case length, the bullet length is kinda limited. I personally thought the 22TCM had a kinda stubby bullet.
edit to add: I think you're on the right path with the 22RE. I tried the 5.7X28 and all the brass is kinda soft and the area around the primer pocket gets big just looking at it. I've done the 4.6X30 converted to 17X30 and I like that little round but it's an entirely different caliber -- good for varmints with strong brass, much stronger than the 5.7X28 stuff but still a varmint round. The 7.62X25 Tok brass is easy to form and I really like it -- the only problem is nobody makes it commercially and I'm hoping you can get the rounds to work in a PPS mag.
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Post by HMC710 on Mar 11, 2013 9:56:48 GMT -5
Talked w Ron Reed and he said .980" and Nosler 45gr Sp bullets. I haven't got a barrel turned yet but did spend some much needed time with family! Not to add another cook to the kitchen, but a friend sent me this link. www.gunblast.com/Kightlinger.htmSame thing but with .223 base and sized for use in 9mm's Travel day today but rumor has it that it might be coming to an end....
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 11, 2013 14:42:50 GMT -5
The Kightlinger rounds remind me of the 22TCM and the 22micro mag -- I really don't like the bullets but if you're doing a pistol all you might want is accuracy out to 25 yards. If you are looking to do a carbine than the 22RE works but I never figured out the PPS mag problem. The 22TCM and the others like it might be able to work in modified AR mags or the PPS magazine. Now this is just me but the primer on those fired kightlinger rounds looked a little too over pressure for me. Below are pictures of the 22micro mag case in an AR magazine. Notice in the side picture the shoulder on the case is behind the rib that's just in front of the magazine notch.
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Post by HMC710 on Mar 11, 2013 20:50:44 GMT -5
Yes, when I saw the primer pics on the Kightlinger Holy Pressures Batman... I am confident we'll get the Pps-43 mags to work, but they also stack into the ol M1 Carbine as well with the longer bullets.
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Post by 22boomer on Mar 12, 2013 8:24:20 GMT -5
Yes, when I saw the primer pics on the Kightlinger Holy Pressures Batman... I am confident we'll get the Pps-43 mags to work, but they also stack into the ol M1 Carbine as well with the longer bullets. It sure would be great if you got the PPS mag problem figured out but I also like the M1 carbine mag idea. I just tried the 22 micro mag cases in the carbine magazine and they fit really nice also but I did notice that the follower started to tip pretty bad with 10 cases in place but this was a 30 round Korean magazine. I was just thinking that, depending on what you plan on working on, you might not want to put all your eggs in one basket. Ron got the 22RE to work in the CZ-52 pistol and I got it to work in a DI AR carbine but the 22 TCM and the 22 micro mag may work well also. I can send you 50 of the 22 micro mag cartridge cases to see if you can get them to work also. This way you have two versions that may work well -- and become commercial versions. The 22 micro mag is just another version of the 22 TCM. I bet if you wanted to stuff bullets into the 22 micro mag case you could use the 22RE bullet seater set out a bit further. If you'd like the cases just IM me your address.
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Post by HMC710 on Mar 15, 2013 20:41:51 GMT -5
Hopefully back in the shop in a few weeks....... have a shut down to get through...
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